[0:25] So how do you go about getting promoted?
[0:30] That’s a good one. A nice starting question.
[0:34] Let’s let’s give this a little shape. I see a differentiator between minimum.
You want to get promoted internally and you wanna go promoted externally.
Yeah. It’s only like you just quit the job and Great, um, maybe we go four for internal one first. Yeah, let’s do internal first. I think most people are more focused on that.
Um, it’s very difficult to jump from one company to a different one. So let’s do internal for stuff. Yeah, Yeah.
So internal. Um, assumption.
Um, you have a job, and you’re good in the job.
And your boss agrees that you’re good in the job we’re not talking about. You are the genius in the job, and your boss is like, Oh, my goodness. Yes. Person.
Um, So then my recommendation is.
[1:26] Wait until they promote you, huh?
[1:32] Right, So But there’s also, you know, you know, a school of thought that says, Well, if I have a manager who’s under me and he’s doing perfectly fine,
there’s another available position.
[1:50] You know, in English, we say don’t rock the boat. So why would you take that manager from that specific sector?
Promote him? You don’t know how well he’s going to do in a different field with a different team, and at the same time you’re gonna in balance, you’re gonna cause an imbalance to the structure under you.
So wouldn’t it make more sense to find someone from outside of the company who already deals with that position?
And that way, at least you know that the structure underneath you is going to keep working efficiently. So what would you say to that way? Open one can of worms after the other. So what do I tell you? What? What do I tell you for this one?
This is a ridiculously selfish thought, which I can see out there everywhere.
Right. And the result is this You have new manager on board on this position, whom you don’t know if this guy was a good sales guy than in the interview. He just convinced you, and then you have him there.
Right? Um, this is number one. So you have somebody who doesn’t know the organization who doesn’t even know where the toilets are.
And you have a new best enemy, which is the guy who was looking at the port of this position.
That is correct. So I I understand that a lot off managers, well.
[3:11] I don’t know good managers who act like that. I know people, the people that I know, that that that a really successful they try to promote within the organization.
Yes, to keep all the knowledge in the organization and then if that is not successful, are there’s nobody there. Then they go get fresh blood from the outside or they say, OK, I have three people who want to do this.
But guys, we got to talk. You are not there yet. I’m hiring somebody else from the outside because of this. That the other reason. So play this open.
Let’s go back to the initial one. How to get promoted internally when I say Wait until you get promoted and this is not a passive waiting, Okay.
[3:50] It’s not complicated to get promoted, so I think the sender’s need some space. Yes, if you do it smart.
So smart means first, who promotes you?
[4:04] It’s not the organization that promotes its people. Organizations don’t exist. It’s just a fake word where we can blame somebody but and not take and avoid responsibility.
It was the organization who didn’t know it wasn’t.
It was a person. Some person scientists letter.
Okay, so you need to know who is responsible for your promotion.
This is the first thing. That’s a good point. Usually people believe Now, that’s my boss. That’s easy.
I say, No. I haven’t seen an organization at all in all of my 20 years of the career with the boss is the only decision maker when it comes to your to your promotion.
Okay. So meaning your direct boss above you usually has to either run it by their boss or even, you know, high are okay. And and workers council on whatever. Yeah.
So? And? And friends and family and colleagues, you know, when the colleagues say, does Mossad guy, maybe you think twice he will not promote you. No, no, wait.
[5:08] So I know who has. Who’s playing in this game was a stake in the game. And then second thing, make sure that these people know you.
Okay. Obviously, to say in a good way, get close to these people, Understand?
What are they searching for? What are they promoting for?
So I hear this very often, especially in my i t tech field.
These guys say I’m the best serve redman, and they’re not getting promoted.
[5:36] And I don’t need to talk to to his boss because I know nobody supports Nobody promotes a server at man. You just promote a leader, at least the manager.
What is the stuff? The capabilities, the ideas, the thoughts, the knowledge, the whatever evidence they want.
They want to see to say, yeah, this’ll stop guy next. Position him.
Yeah. So Okay, make sure that they know you and that they you know what what they want.
[6:06] And please, please, please, please, please, please, please. If you hate all of them, change the company.
Okay. If if If you know if I would hate you from the depth of my soul.
And I know you’re responsible because you’re my boss and you’re responsible for my promotion.
And I just Olive says, I just need to get to know you need to get close to games up.
Howie, you feel that I don’t like you and you feed It’s Miri.
It’s It’s just difficult to hide that the negative thought process or reaction that you have with somebody on. Sometimes it can even do.
I would say more harm than good because you show them you show them that. Okay, it’s I I’ve heard this guy doesn’t like me or I know he’s not my biggest fan. Why is he acting like this? And it makes you, um almost seem not trustworthy.
And I so Okay, so do this. Do this with people that you like, and these are just, by the way, even boss off whatever level is just a guy or a girl.
So it’s just it’s just people, you know, it Z.
And if you hate all of them. Then don’t expect that they promote you.
We’re not happen. So first. So you got to know. You got to know these people. You gotta know what they promote for.
So then the second thing is quite quite obvious. You got to do a good job and and now it.
Now it’s a bit. It’s a bit said, Do the job off your boss.
[7:33] Can you Can you expound on that?
Because, in a way, maybe this is opening a different kind of worms again.
But in a way, wouldn’t you know, doing the job of your boss?
Show that you’re angling for that position, but almost in a negative way. What would you say to that?
Ah, good one way. We need to make 11 step. I thought this was, um I’m usually recommend.
[8:05] If you wanna get promoted, you need to talk to your boss first things first. Things.
I doubt that there is many people out there who who are, like, you know, arguing. Oh, he wants to get promoted and he they fire me. And so he gets my job.
I I doubt if that’s the case and you want to be promoted, then you’re getting promoted anyway, so leave better now than in a year.
So your boss needs to know this. Usually they support this.
The point is, and I’m not talking about a reasonable boss. Yes. Don’t tell him I will be promoted. Ask him. Okay. I want to I want to doom. Or what do you think is missing for me to get promoted.
Okay. So more more like a feedback in terms of what you can do but accepted. Except he needs to.
[8:53] I’ve heard this so many times that when the boss he is the sentence, he just sits down with a smile says, Dude, I thought you’d never get it.
So it’s if this boss has a little bit little bit light on the brain.
Yeah, He sees who of the employees has this potential. Who hasn’t?
So, um, the ball’s needs to be your supporter?
Yes. If your boss, you tell him descendants I want to be promoted and he just falls off the chair laughing. Um.
[9:24] Well, what can I say? You know ain’t gonna happen. You cannot be promoted.
Even in big companies around your boss. You cannot hide that you get promoted.
If he doesn’t support this, the whole organization will know that he doesn’t support this.
Your boss needs to know this. Um, taking the job of your boss means.
And this this was a was a very good example at the beginning, which you made. Why not getting somebody from the outside who did the job beforehand?
[9:54] People are risk averse. Especially miniatures. Yes.
And here you are. And you do this job, whatever it is.
Job a and you do the job and you’re awesome. Top a do er And he asked me, Can I become a manager? Can I get more responsibility for others?
I have no evidence that you have any idea of what we’re talking about because you’re good in doing job, eh? No. Didn’t do in management doing people management.
So show me that.
[10:26] That you can do this, That you have an idea we’re talking about? I expect you to be the 1st 1 who is standing.
Who? Making one step. When the new project comes along, the more complicated the better.
Okay, Project management is a good leadership Trying management, trying exercise.
So, um, heaven, I On what? Your job. What your boss is doing.
I loved when I was in a negative service in these companies. When when a good employee came along and said, Can I help you?
Yes. So this is what I mean, not You’re just taking over and this meeting begins and you’re already in the room.
You’ve occupied the room. The boss comes in five minutes later, and now we just get along without you by so more of not an upstage to them.
More of Ah, almost a kn assistance. And another way, you’re making yourself, um, kind of first choice because of the goodwill that you build up.
[11:24] And at the end of the day, as you suggest, if you speak to them and you tell them Hey, um, what can I do to get promoted? So you put that seed you plant the thought in their head.
Then you start doing more positive things. You show them that.
Okay, I know why he’s doing it, but I also know how he’s doing it exactly.
And it’s it’s, um, as you said, that’s a very positive thing that helped that assistance goes a long way, especially when it’s time to decide, obviously, as your direct boss.
[11:59] Even if they’re not the one signing the promotion. As you said in the beginning, they’re gonna be the ones that would have almost the most influence in terms off.
Yes, this is my go to guy. Yeah or no, don’t like him, so Okay. Good point.
So you’re showing evidence that you’ve done this, and then he can see Okay, Okay. Okay.
Now we can talk. I can see that you’re good in a obviously, because this was your job.
I can see you do this, that the other. And by the way, here, Now that you do it, I can see a gap.
So Okay, let’s let’s sit together. And we just train you on this particular piece off, whatever it is, incantation off and let whatever you know. So and then then he beats you up. Yes.
Yeah. So this is And then let’s see if I’ve gotten anything.
Um Then we are at the beginning of my beginning sentence.
It’s not that you asked for, but you sit and wait. Okay. How long do you wait?
[12:56] An appropriate time. That varies. That’s a good That’s a very big copy out there.
Um, for some, you know someone that’s younger is just starting out. They don’t mind waiting too.
Three years, Someone that’s been with the company for a long time.
Um, either bringing that experience as a transfer from somewhere else or having grown with the company.
What would you say to someone that asks you? Okay, what’s my appropriate time? Is this something you have to decide for yourself?
Yep. Okay, let’s let’s go. Let’s go through this through Spectrum, which you opened.
Here’s this person who is eight years or something in the company.
[13:41] Talking about can of worms. If this person is 12 years in the company doing a task A and now we what? He woke up and wants to get promoted. Have you quite skeptical?
Okay, so whatever this person is now four years and the company is doing a and it’s quite well and he wants to get promoted and he talks to me, and I’m I’m okay.
Was that thought, um, my assumption would be within a year.
You find out if this person is a manager or can do a management role or not. Okay. What do you want? What do you want to see after two years of 23 years?
So there is nothing. Okay, so it’s only a lack off decision, usually so.
[14:22] If you are there and your let’s say, six years there and you’re just kind of doing and helping your boss without,
listening to this podcast and without having any attention and just it’s just there and your boss is sitting there every day and smiling when you do his job,
let’s see when he wakes up and comes along.
Yeah, And then you woke up because you heard this podcast and then you came along and said, Dude, I just need to I need to get promoted And he said he have Sure. I know there is this position which is waiting for you. Just pack your things. And next Monday you’re there.
Well, this this can’t happen. Yes, let’s go to the extremes.
You go to your boss and he says, Yeah, I’m totally supportive and you’re not telling him when you want to be promoted, then I believe this is where your problems start. Make a clear statement.
If he doesn’t fall off laughing off the chances Thio know thin.
We have a different ball game. But if he’s supportive and you ask him what is missing and there’s maybe I don’t know, you need to become better in presentations. What? I don’t care.
Then a reasonable amount of time off showing evidence that you can do it.
Plus a reasonable amount of training time brings me again to approximately a year. Okay?
If after a year seriously, nothing happens, then you go back to him. Talk to him back again. Dude, I took Siri’s.
I will become promoted in next six months.
[15:49] That is That’s a strong power move, though. This is a very, very big Um, it almost thinks, uh, you know, I don’t want to see say, ego.
Ah, very high sense of self worth to walk into your, you know, superiors office and say hi.
[16:10] I will be promoted within six months. It is can go one of two ways, eh?
Wow. I like the ambition. I like the, you know, the toughness it’s gonna happen, or B even if he, you know, strings you along a little bit at the back of his mind or her mind.
What if they’re like Okay? No, I don’t like that. Yes, I’m with you. I’m with you. Yeah, it sze when you played it, it was not as harsh is headed in my Yeah, um, you’re not opening the door Monday morning as they Dude, we gotta talk.
Um, never blackmail your organization. Never blink your boss.
On the other hand, is your life with your career? Sure. If you have after a year, he has a valid statement or she has a valid statement on there. Is this one piece missing?
Good and you agree. And you see our care Kate. Now I see it as well, and you need some time. Cool.
[17:04] Um, if they say okay, you are there, But please bear with us.
We need eight more months until this other organization where you wait, which has your name on, is set up.
So, you know, it’s it’s I think it’s not really about the time, which you have to wait. It’s more about the perspective that they give you.
Okay, Circumstance, circumstance, What’s going on?
If they are honest, if they’re decisive, if they don’t decide because they don’t decide, Yeah, then well, pick your luck for somebody else going there and saying, Dude, I will be promoted in brackets here or somewhere else.
This is the This is the last piece of bullet. You know, this is one step further than putting the gun on the table.
Yeah, this is just having the gun in the hand this close to a black man. But but.
[17:51] Make it time for yourself. Play the time line open.
And maybe you have a hard time. Not like Okay, I’m I’m now 28 I need to be I need to have the first management role before 30. Yes.
So, um, then don’t talk about, um, the next two years.
Then talk about if you have, ah, quite relaxed relationship with your boss.
Yeah. You know, everybody who’s successful, miss promoted, Um, with the two with beginning off, they’re off their age with 20 or something, and I I Amy, I aim for the same. Yeah, I aim for the same.
That’s it. Leave it there. Half centered, not pronounced, not stick out. Just leave it there.
[18:34] He doesn’t know how old you are. Well, he knows, and especially if she knows.
And she understands what the message was.
Okay. And then you just people know things are things are some people think things are important.
I say things are we can treat things important.
Okay? And when you say you want to be promoting your telling me this at general ery off a year and then I don’t hear anything from you for the next three months, six months. Seven months?
Eight month. Well, what makes me think that you that you just take the Siri’s?
Okay, So screw you. So you it’s your responsibility. You gotta talk to the boss every month or something. Where are we on this track? How are my going? How was it?
Was the people? Was this okay? Where do you think I can approve further on. So keep it on the plate.
Okay. So then in this situation, I would say every organization has an opinion after a year.
[19:31] And not making a decision is a decision.
[19:40] If your boss tells you Oh, yeah. I can’t decide this now because And then there is an explanation.
Yeah, He said I can’t decide this.
The word I can not means he has decided.
[19:53] Yeah. So yeah, there is a saying when you say something and then you put the word, but it nullifies everything before it.
So So I cannot decide this, but But something something, something.
Just leave it that I cannot decide this or I don’t want to decide this thing.
This entity starts with the but yeah, So I’m absolutely with you. So? So if you if you want, it’s again, it’s your the reason why this pot gas is called livid. Heeded.
Um, live cook consists off your whole life, including your career. So it’s your career. Do you really think you’re ready to go? You have all the signs green, and your boss is undecided, and you stay there. Why?
Yeah, why? Just just do something. Yeah.
So I think it’s a very individual. The number the length off the time is very individual.
I have not seen a reasonable waiting period for longer than two years.
Two years? Yeah, so and after As I said after a year.
I mean, if the boss is a little bit off a brain buck, then he knows after after three months.
You working there? If you have potential, Not so then you come into my office. I want to do this then. Well, I have my have my my training plan for you already prepared? Yes. Yeah. So.
[21:16] We have this other thing off external promotion. And I would say we talk about this next week. Do we? Yeah, sure.
Cool was up. Thank you a lot. Fine. Bye.